CAP project - feedback appreciated

[Io@BBS]

When I installed Pets the other day, first thing I did was to go into CAS/CAP. Picked the EA arabian to try all the sliders and customization options with. I didn't mean to, but I kind of got attached to that horse.

I have put up a slideshow of all my test horses: blackeberg.weebly.com/picspam.html.

Today was the first time I took my project out of CAP, and I switched to one of the new awesomesauce grey coats by Christina (snow, I believe), as blazed buckskin wasn't exactly ideal on an arabian and kind of distracting conformation-wise.

Version 1 is unchanged since my very first try the first day, except the coat, mane and tail. It has a grey tail for identification purposes.

Version 2 is based directly on v1, with conformation alterations to the muzzle, rump, back, chest and belly foremost. It has a white tail for identifcation purposes.

The bay adult arabian is the original LEC template. It has been used for comparison, and also experimental breeding with my arabian versions.

First foal is grey, and out of the v1 mare and the template stallion. Second foal is bay and out of the v2 mare and the template stallion. I edited some body blotches on them, but nothing big. It's the conformation blends I'm interested in.

So. I'd like your opinions on these 2 mares, and to some extent the foals.

In your opinion, are any of these horses a good match to the LEC template, meaning maybe I should consider having them in an arabian breeding program?

If no to the above, are any of them suitable for an arabian or anglo-arabian breeding program of their own?

Would any of them make a decent base for some other breed, and if so, which?

[vibia]

V1 ja V2 horses have way too short noses for my taste and on my opinion it doesn't even look realistic at all . The body of the horse is really beautiful though, the lenght of the head is the only thing I don't like though. Eyes and head shape is gorgeous too, but that length...
On my opinion, those arabians would look way better with longer, more realistic looking nose.

I don't want to offend you in any way, but you asked for opinions

I have to add that I'm not into that whippet-like super-skinny belly either (I know many other sim arabians has that look too but I just dont like it) On V1's side photo, her belly is beautiful

[Io@BBS]

Yep, I sure did ask for opinions, and I do want honest ones, be the verdict good or bad.

I agree on several of your points, and none of these are completely done. V2's head and a mix between the two body types is what I'm gonna try for V3, and there will probably be V4, V5 and maybe more as well. ;D

[Sarah@Runzo]

First off, I think CAP is incredibly hard, so all power to you for working with it - your horses look much better than my first attempts (or really my current attempts). That said, here's my opinion...

I'm also not a fan of the whippet look. When I think of Arabians, I think of a horse with a very compact body that's somewhat round. Not fat! Just... round and "well-sprung". I'm not articulating very well, but I think a wider "waist" would probably suit the horse a little better. I prefer V1 in this respect, and would consider widening it even more.

I'm also not a huge fan of the profile. I find that in sims, people tend to really exaggerate the dished face. In reality, you tend to see a very slight dip in - much more similar to the LEC template. I think what's throwing me is the very big bump on the end of the nose.

I really like the front view... you did a great job depicting the "teacup muzzle!"

I'm not sure whether I like the croup on V1 or V2 better... V1's goes into the tail more harmoniously, but V2's is much flatter and arab-y. I'd say you could safely go either direction. I like the hindquarters much better on V2, V1 looks a little Quarter Horsey.

I'd suggest looking at pictures of real horses, too. I find that I often forget what horses look like and begin to cherry-pick and exaggerate parts until my horses look like cartoons - so it always helps me to do a quick google search so I can take a quick look and remind myself of the real thing

I feel like I've accidentally written an essay here - so I hope this was helpful (and not too too long)! I think you've got a really awesome start.

[Vivian]

Making Arabianhorse with Sims is really challenge. I find the most difficult part is the muzzle area and making their forehead look realistic. From what I have seen there are little diffence between continents how they look in real life. I also must agree with Vibia about the bellies. In my opinion arabian horses does not have sag backs and skinny bellies. I quess sometimes people do that to have the "vivid" feeling for their arabian horses. Unfortunately, with Sims we can´t really make realistic arabian horses that stands out their exceptional comfortation and movement. We just have to seddle the best we can do .

Vol 1 has better comfortation and I like vol 2 headshape more.

[Io@BBS]

Yeah, it's that typical arabian charisma I feel is hard to capture w/o going overboard with something to make them stand out.

I'm glad to hear you all seem to agree V1 body/belly is ok, since it's the one I like best myself. I do like the shape of the V2 muzzle from a front view, teacup shape was a cute word for it. The nose bump is something I can't get right w/o the muzzle looking too big and clumsy for a refined head, or what is supposed to be that anyways.

I'm gonna add a version 3 later today, am going into CAP anyway to work on other horses. Luckily those have templates, but I find colours and markings even harder than conformation.

Thank you all for your input! I've written down all your points in my notes.

[Io@BBS]

Alright, many versions later, I feel like I should either settle or give up. With the upcoming rule changes to the arab registry, I have to make my mind up pretty quick, otherwise I won't have any foundation arabians at all.

New pictures have been added to the slideshow above. I'm currently on V7.

Changes:

V3 had the same head as V2 to start with but got a bit longer nose. The body was altered to have less of a waist and a rounder belly, plus as close to a straight back as I could manage w/o the croup and tail looking funny.

Horses were matched to have 2 foals. 1 V3/V3 foal and 1 V3/LEC template foal. The latter looked fine, but the pure V3 foal had it's teeth go through it's upper lip/muzzle. Only visible straight up front, not from the side. I aged it up and then it looked fine, just like it's parents, but it still bothered me.

V4
I left the rest of the horse as it was, and adjusted the muzzle. I liked it on V3 as it was, because when trying to fix it, it felt like it got too big. If it hadn't been for the foal teeth thing, this might've been the final version. But V4/V4 foal still had the same problem, only slightly less obvious.

V5
Another slight change to the muzzle, still foal teeth showing. As an adult, it looked fine.

V6
Same as above, didn't even take pictures.

V7
First time a purebred foal didn't have the teeth problem! Maybe not a perfect example of an arabian, but probably as good as I personally am capable of. Unless I've missed something really obvious that I can most likely correct, this will be the final version.

My hope is to have a couple horses based on my own template, a couple based on the LEC template to get some variations in my first breeding results later. The test foals from V3-V7 combined with the LEC template all came out ok or better, imo.

There's no pictures of them either, but I also combined a TB template by Xtina with my arabians, both in CAP and ingame, and those anglo arabs were gorgeous! I kept from taking pictures on purpose, b/c I want to hold off showing them until I've actually made such combinations in my real game. V3-7 and their offspring were only tests, and I didn't save anything outside of CAP.

[Adelia]

I really can't wait until someone manages to create some sliders for the sims Pets... it will make CAP so much easier and more versatile.

[Io@BBS]

Yeah, it really would be a big help. I might be wrong, but it seems the sims community in general don't care much about the horses as far as CC and mods go. Outside the equestrian community, there's not much talk about them at all, from what I've seen.

[Sarah@Runzo]

Yeah, Io, I think you're right. It's too bad... with a bigger community, the modding problems I understand people are running into (eg the tack issues) would probably be less of a roadblock. But that's what we get for being a niche community!

Of course, being a small community has its upsides... I think that folks in the equestrian community are really nice and encouraging. I'm hoping to give some modding a try sooner or later (probably later, because I haven't got oodles of free time right now) because I have a feeling that people here will be pretty supportive even if I do a crappy job. The larger Sims community seems - at least to me - a little more negative.

So yeah, hopefully other people feel similarly and we'll see an upswing in horse-related CC (mods and otherwise).

[vibia]

Yeah, looking at the photos of real horses helps a lot V5 and V7 head length is a lot better than the first version's.

Here's little pic thingy what areas I would focus on since my english laggs too much to write it xD

[Io@BBS]

Thanks for the picture examples Vibia, I'm flattered you took the time to make it! I'm gonna go with my V7 though, as they are now done and in the game already. Got just as many LEC templates to combine them with and from gen 2 or 3 I will add horses from other breeders as well, and see what I come up with. They are also meant for TB crosses to produce anglo arabs.

I'm not a fan of the longest arabian heads, although the really delicate ones with small heads you often see in especially Polish imports (at least here) look a bit weird proportion-wise as well. I guess my taste goes towards a type inbetween. There's a beautiful arabian stallion here called Elcatero, who is also approved for Swedish Warmblood breeding (the only arabian stallion that is), and I really like his looks and his offspring, both pure arabian and others like anglos and SW.

Edit: Alright, I am gonna have another go at it after all. I can save the coats done and just put them on the updated versions later. There's a couple of days left before the 11th. ;D

But bloody hell, this is painful! Clearly I'm not a very talented horse creator and didn't expect to be, but still..

[Io@BBS]

V8 is done. Tested in game, and no foal teeth problems or anything else strange. Body is left untouched, but I ended up fiddling with the head quite a lot. Got a better grip of the balance of things now.

Pics added to the end of the slideshow.

Thank you everyone for your help and input!

[Sarah@Runzo]

Looks wonderful and congratulations on being finished!

[Io@BBS]

Thank you very much!